Friday, January 22, 2016

A lesson learned

My experience with the Kerodins has been both expensive and valuable. I'm out close to $2800 total between III Arms Company and donations to their dojo and IIIPS. The first I thought of as an investment, and as such I expected the money to be used specifically to get a firearms production company started. Start-up capital. Now, anyone with investment experience knows that start-ups have a very small chance of survival, let alone success. It's a high-risk gamble, but there are certain times when the gamble is worth it, even if it's not a monetary success.

With investments, you don't always expect to see returns, but you do expect a certain degree of accountability and transparency from those to whom you've entrusted your money. With III Arms Company, it's not that it failed, it's the question of accountability on the part of the Kerodins, and their lack of openness with the Founding Members. We gave them money for a specific purpose, we would like to have a detailed accounting of where it went. The problem is also the best lesson learned: while we gave money for the purpose, and while we were "honored" as Founding Members of a new company, none of us received anything indicating us as legal owners of the company. Nothing on the financial record establishing a legal right for any donor to claim over the company. What does this mean exactly? Well, it means that the Founding Members have as much claim to the company assets, records, or profits as anyone not sending money to the Kerodins. Exactly zero. Once the money changed hands, without any legal documents of ownership, it became the Kerodins' property. With only their names on ownership documents and business accounts, the Founders were effectively shut out of any claims or liabilities. That is the one good thing about this, any lawsuits against III Arms Company by the government or purchasers go straight to the Kerodins and no Founding Member will get dragged into it.

So Lesson #1:

When investing in any business enterprise, get a contract, get acknowledgement in writing that you have a legal stake in the business that entitles you to quarterly statements, rights to liquidated assets in case of a bankruptcy, and a share of the profits if it succeeds. Have this documentation signed, dated, notarized if possible and in your possession. 

Now let's talk donations and gifts. After the III Arms debacle, all of the enterprises the Kerodins came up with and promoted fell into the "donation and gift" category. Nothing was sold as a for profit enterprise. No one was offered a stake in the St. Maries dojo, the Kerodins made it very clear that they were soliciting gifts to make the dojo something that would reflect positively on the Patriot community. This was an emotional appeal, "do it for the Community". Of course, the only people who directly benefited from the gifts purchased on Amazon and sent directly to the Kerodins were...you guessed it, the Kerodins. All the money collected for the TOC? Donations/gifts. Money collected as "dues" for the III Patriot Society? Donations/gifts. There was no promise or guarantees made by the Kerodins for any of it, but that doesn't matter. Legally, a donation or monetary gift becomes the property of the recipient and the giver relinquishes all control over it. You can ask for proof, verification or results until you're blue in the face, but the Kerodins are not legally required to respond. As the "recipients of gifts", they have no responsibility to use the funds in any manner other than how they desire.

And now Lesson #2:

When considering donating or gifting money or materials to any person or entity, understand that once that money/material leaves your possession, it becomes the recipient(s)' possession to do with as they will. Be very sure of the nature of the recipient before donating.  Your only recourse, once you believe the recipient is misusing donations, is to stop donating. Period.

So there you have it in a nutshell.

Don't invest without legal documentation, a handshake just isn't enough anymore, and for some, words mean nothing.

Don't donate money/materials and expect to have any say or control over how it's used by the recipient.

I'm not as trusting as I once was, I've grown up.



22 comments:

wirecutter said...

We all learn hard.
But there's still hope he'll get popped for wire fraud. INTERSTATE wire fraud, a federal felony.

J Bogan said...

Thing is, when you are dealing with people of honor and integrity, a handshake IS sufficient. There are people in my world that their word IS their bond, and that is why they remain in my world. I hope they see me the same way. Sadly for all concerned, the asswipes have learned to manipulate the kindness and trust of good people for personal enrichment. But Karma, she can be a bitch.

So the question remains, what to do about the Kerodins? Liars, Cheats and Thieves.I am with WC, a nice wire fraud arrest and trial would do a body good...
So, Fuck off, Christian, and Velma. You people add NOTHING to this planet, and I hope you depart soon.

gamegetter II said...

The vast majority of people I deal with are honorable people,and if they say they're going to do something,they do it,if they ask me to do some work that has to be done,but they can't pay me until their financial situation improves-I do the work for them.
I eventually got paid-every time,by every person I helped out when they needed house repairs done that they just couldn't afford at the time.
Some of them,I told to forget about paying me,as I knew how bad off they were at the time-even they paid me back in some way.
All of those agreements were done with nothing more than a handshake.
The first guy I ever worked for full time for more than a year always said -
"if your word ain't no good-you ain't no good."

That seems to apply in this case.

taminator013 said...

I'm sorry that you lost so much money that you probably could ill afford to spend. That's the problem when you think with your heart instead of head. No disrespect to you intended. I've been burned more than a few times over the years whether it's been with money or in personal relationships. I, too, was sorely tempted to jump in with both feet and invest in III Arms, but I did a little research on the K clan ahead of time. For once..................

hiswiserangel said...

Yeah, I just can't wait to see what kind of retaliation they come up with this time.

eatgrueldog said...

But you still hosted me. Thank you. I had not told my wife what I was up to and she broke down crying when she found out how many people were helping out. She said she finally saw a ray of hope. Good people still exist. Too bad that the rotten ones also do.

BWBandy said...

I used to invest money for people, specifically real estate. Where I worked we always had a description of what their money was being invested in and provided the security (such as land titles, copies of guarantees, etc.). I am always amazed that people invest money blindly. I never like to see anyone lose money and you offer solid advice. I would add that when it comes to investing money even if there is legal documentation involved cross check everything, ask if they have ever been audited (investment firms should have a yearly audit), and ask to see the results of the audit. After all, it is your money.

JeremyR said...

The ten rules for living by Kent Keith
1. People are illogical, unreasonable, and self centered. Love them anyway.
2. If you do good, people will acuse you of selfish ulterior motives. Do good anyway.
3. If you are successful, you will win false friends and true enemies. Succeed anyway.
4. The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway.
5. Honesty and Frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.
6. The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds. Think big anyway.
7. People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs. Fight for a few underdogs anyway.
8. What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight. Build anyway.
9. People really need help, but may attack you if you do help them. Help people anyway.
10. Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth. Give the world the best you have anyway.

idahobob said...

I'm glad that my discernment alarm bells went off after dealing with the little bastard for over a year on a sweatshirt.

I knew something was fishy about him.

I cannot for the life of me, figure out why there are the few that still support them. Are they that stupid?

I'm also curious to see how long the folks in St. Maries put up with him and his horseshit.

Bob
III

Anonymous said...

Hey Angel,

(captaincrunch)

I don't like asking money from people to start a business. I would rather take out legal loans even if its for super low interest. I want everything in writing even if its dealing with close friends or associates.

I have been toying with the idea of starting a small 'doggy daycare business' (go ahead and laugh) I got a knack for working with dogs.
I bet I could train 'Wirecutters' dog 'Legal Lucy. You just gotta know how to speak 'Dog"

I don't know if I could pull off a business with all the unfriendly taxes, fee's and insurance etc, etc, here in Texas. I gotta do more research.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that "chamois" claims all this helps him IFF... if he wasn't such a egotistical fool, he would realize the reverse is also true. He has done truemen and truewomen the favor of "outing" himself as a traitor to our values (and, honestly) and our "cause". I pray for forgiveness for what happens in my heart and mind when he is mentioned. Sadly - and he knows this because he's read it (and used it) from me before...
"When confronted by an enemy and a traitor, shoot the traitor first". He will find the coming excitement a bit more exciting for him, and of shorter duration, than the rest of us will likely endure. Lady Karma, she is indeed a bitch.
And I want to thank you Angel, for your kind offer. I will email tomorrow when I've got time. - Grandpa sends

Anonymous said...

At first I was excited about the idea of the Citadel. Then I remembered "Reverend" Jim Jones in Guyana. No way am I drinking anyone's Kool-Aid... So if there was no transfer of ownership or title with those investments, What does the IRS have to say about what amounts to the value of gifts?

Angel eyes said...

Testing

J Bogan said...

I always thought of the "Shitadel" as a nice walled in target. No thanks. No way. Sad the arms business didn't make it, but I guess it does not matter as only Sam and Holly would have benefitted.

Soffitrat said...

"I'm not as trusting as I once was, I've grown up." Good for you. If only everybody was a wise.

rgranger said...

Angle, since Ken says you don't take donations, thanks for running the blog. Sorry that you got bamboozled by they who shan't be mentioned.

Anonymous said...

I deal in lengthy and detailed contracts all the time (many of them are oil and gas leases), and in over 30 years in the business, I have learned that the honest people will function on a handshake, and the no good bastards will cheat you no matter what. ( but a good contract WILL minimize the cheating)......

vaquero viejo

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the reminder JeremyR,

Wifie says "That goes on the fridge door for now!"
Good words to live by.

RTinWeimar

Robert Fowler said...

idahobob said...

I knew something was fishy about him.

Yeah, I did too. I started suspecting something with the whole "citadel" thing. I went and read some of his writing and if you really think about it, some of it is pretty scary. He seems to have no concept of right and wrong and absolutely no respect for human life.

idahobob said...
I cannot for the life of me, figure out why there are the few that still support them. Are they that stupid?

I don't think they are so much stupid but "true believers". That's scarier than if they were just stupid. It makes you wonder if the followers he has left would be willing to die for their hero.

Anonymous said...

It took me a fifteen minute internet search to find out that "kerodin" (not his real name) was a convicted career criminal--in 2013. I and at least five others SCREAMED this to you , Kenny and EVERYBODY who was praising this dog vomit scum as a "patriot" at the time. In this comment section you said something to the effect that it was "worth the risk" to invest in this KNOWN felon and refused to listen to every warning. Well you and Kenny KNOWINGLY got in bed with this sawed off trash. You "gifted" money to him and his CONVICTED whore, and now both of you are paying again. So I won't do this again. Have ether of you EVER thought about turning this around on him? How about making written complaints of fraud , wire fraud and internet fraud? and sending them to the US Attorney? Are he and "Holly" (not her real name) using the fake "Dojo" as a front to make kiddy porn? I'll bet money they don't want the feds asking questions about ANYTHING right now because that is the "next move" for them, and they plan to TRY and pin it on one of you. They know that they have fucked up and are about to get caught if ANYBODY starts digging into whatever grift they are up to. That's WHY they frauded up a law suit on Kenny. They are trying to punk bluff both of you into silence. You guys are the "victims" of this. If y'all start actually doing something other than bitching they go to prison. If the two of you (and the rest of the III%) spend half the energy using the "system" they fear so much, to throw this shit stain under the prison, that you have bitching about it, he hasn't got a chance. You are smart educated and tough as hell. DIG IN AND FIGHT!!! You are a TEXAS GIRL by G_D! Show this trash what that means.--- IMO they are planning "the big score" and run, and They will use you and Kenny as an "exit plan", if they can, and you don't have much time.

JeremyR said...

RT,
Those words were variously attributed to every one from Kennedy to Ann Landers to Mother Theresa. He called them The Paradoxical Commandments.
Quite a character.

wirecutter said...

Anon@1/23 9:12 - you spent a lot of time doing your I-told-you-sos. Good for you. Feel better about yourself now?
We fucked up, we know we fucked up and now we're trying to make it right by warning others.
If YOU think the authorities need to be called, why haven't YOU called them?
If they want to use me as an exit plan, that's fine as long as they're gone.