Sunday, August 18, 2013

Autism and the Amish, hugs to Chief Nose Wetter

Chief Nose Wetter, It Ain't Holy Water, posted this yesterday. Since starting my blog almost a year ago, and talking about the cute chicks and their struggles with Autism, I have had so many lovely positive encounters with you guys. You're smart, caring, and you ask really good questions. You repost my stories about Autism, you post some you find, you send me others. You are a huge link in the chain of knowledge; and you spreading the word, asking the questions, is such a wonderful support to me and the Autism community as a whole.

Decades ago, we were told "Cigarettes don't cause lung cancer; if they did, then every smoker would get lung cancer." And we kept smoking. And we kept dying. Until someone finally pushed for the truth to come out, mostly the medical community who cashed in on anti-smoking treatments when not cashing in on cancer treatments. Someone is always going to benefit.

Now we have Big Pharma telling us, "Oh no no no, you whackadoos, vaccines don't cause Autism, because if it did, every child who got vaccinated would be Autistic." See the similarity in reasoning? As with smoking, it's not JUST the vaccine; it's environmental, genetic, a cocktail of vaccines delivered to babies before their immune systems are fully set.  There are studies linking acetaminophen toxicity (what was the first thing the doctor's told you to do when getting your kids vaccinated? Give them Tylenol for the soreness and fever) to higher cases of Autism. It could be that we need to find the genetic factor, test babies for it (hey if we can detect Down's Syndrome in utero, we can find a way to detect Autism) and allow the parents to decide whether or not to vaccinate. It could be that we need to delay vaccinations until at the very least after two years of age, when most Autism cases are detected. But the practice of giving our infants 36 vaccines by the age of 5, double that of the rest of "developed" countries, needs to be addressed and changed. (

The truth is we don't know the truth. Yet. So, to abandon the very very real possibility that vaccines are a major contributing factor because doctors and Big Pharma (both of whom benefit financially from vaccines) calls us irrational whackadoos and tries to silence us with scorn, is in my humble opinion the height of cowardice and irresponsibility. I will NOT be silenced and I will NOT stop searching for the truth.


Harbqll said...

Not this again. There are zero studies demonstrating a link between vaccines and autism. Ditto with Tylenol.

And please don't start with the 'just because it isn't proven doesn't mean it's not there' argument. You could say the same about childhood exposure to unicorn farts.

Trisomy 21 as a discreet entity is not detected in utero. The triple and quad screen identify correlation all factors. Definitive testing requires karyotyping, which is a genetic test. And I've seen one case where even that was wrong. The child had Down's due to a translation, not a trisomy.

hiswiserangel said...

And just because you say it isn't there doesn't mean it isn't. How many "scientific studies" proved decisively that smoking DIDN'T CAUSE CANCER? When science is run by large financial complexes whose bottom line depends on proving vaccines are okey dokey, the "proof" is suspect.
So explain the lower incidences, and near complete lack of autism in communities where aggressive vaccines schedules are absent. Oh, yeah, anomalies, got it. What harm would there be in holding off on ALL vaccines until the age of two? If the kids have had no vaccines by two, and still develop autism, there's your sign.

Chief Nose Wetter said...

Thimerosol in vaccines, cigs, mercury in fillings, Zinc and other metals in dental grips, Aspartame, MSG, BPA, water fluoridation, chemicals in the food, etc, etc, etc. A weak, sickly, dumbed down population becomes government dependent and unable to think for itself. Sound like a conspiracy? You betcha! Wish you the best Angel! Thanks for the kind words.

Paul, Dammit! said...

Gotta go with Harbqll. There is no link, there is no smoking gun. All Autism-spectrum people drink water and ingest dairy products, too, don't forget, yet no one is claiming a link.

This is a tragic story that has killed a LOT of kids and sickened many more, all for the lack of a little critical reasoning. It just doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and rewriting history by exaggerating the scale and scope of the tobacco/health PR manipulation doesn't strengthen the connection. There just isn't a conspiracy here- well, there is, but it ran the other way, all for the sake of one shitty brit doctor's attempt at fame.

There have been dozens of attempts to recreate the dataset that was used to claim a connection between vaccines and autism, and all have failed. And it's not like this is a new phenomena. There have been other stupid, shameful events like this before. A personal vendetta tied to lingering resentment over the adoption of hand-washing as a medical practice led to panic and riots and many violent deaths in the 19th century that accompanied mandatory smallpox vaccination, all because of egotistical doctors who found a platform for notoriety. The Autism/Vaccine false connection is just one more embarrassing artifact born of the intense human distaste for logic and reason.

hiswiserangel said...

Then what is the harm in waiting until after the age of 2 to bombard our kids with twice as many vaccinations as any other country in the free world? Countries who are way less aggressive in their vaccination schedules, both in number and age of child, have fewer cases of autism and lower child mortality rates. Did you even read the report I linked?
Everyone who doesn't have an autistic child, please feel free to make our decisions for us, call us ignorant and try to shame us into being quiet. It just makes us madder and more determined.

Peter said...

I'm sorry, hiswiserangel. On this one I part ways with you.

I can only repeat what others have said above: THERE IS NONE - ZERO, ZIP, NADA - EVIDENCE OF ANY LINK BETWEEN VACCINES AND AUTISM. For you to expect me to allow anti-vaccine prejudice just because there might be a link is the same as allowing DHS to imply that someone might be a domestic terrorist just because he's a Christian and takes the Constitution seriously. There's equal merit in both approaches.

I don't want to attack you personally, because you're obviously sincere in your beliefs: but in this, you're completely misguided. It's wrong. Plain and simple.

You seriously need to change your beliefs, attitude and approach in this area.

Ken aka fht451 said...

Look at the polio vaccines of the late 50's and early 60's that had a mold that caused cancer. When they finally acknowledged it, they still used the vaccine for 3 more years. I got those shots. Big pharma and our government really don't care. I think they like to experiment on us, and they have many times in the past. Many things affect a fetus or a small child in adverse ways that adults just shrug off with no adverse effects. Links and smoking guns are probably available but no one will publish them.

Chris said...

Angel, I was a health care professional for 28 years, and I understand both sides of this controversy. There may be an argument for delaying vaccination beyond age 2, with the risk being an increase in what used to be called "usual childhood diseases". The risk may be minimal statistically, however, be the parent of the child who contracts mumps, measles, polio, or any one of the other potentially fatal illness which used to claim thousands of children each year, and the risk gets pretty big.

Now, let us turn to the vaccination/autism argument and from whence it arose. Some 25 years ago, a physician in England published a series of studies which strongly suggested causality between vaccination and autism.

Much was made of this, and it gained popularity worldwide. A huge outcry resulted and lawsuits flew high, wide, and deep. The CDC got involved, and did NIH, a few universities, and the WHO. Studies were performed. More studies were performed, and still more studies. Meta-analysis of hundreds of thousands of vaccination protocols going back to the 40's and 50's were done.

The single most important concept we need to understand in a situation like this is 'duplication'. Can I get the same results as the first guy using the same methods? Not once, twice, or even three times, but over and over and over again. Can other people get the same results? The answer, over time, was NO. Nobody got the same results as the English physician, and when he was confronted with those results, he eventually admitted the entire program was a hoax. A fraud, he made the whole thing up. The English government pulled his license, barred him from practicing medicine, and fined the crap out of him. He has been thoroughly discredited in the medical community. His betrayal of trust has resulted in lives lost, increases in childhood disease outbreaks, and millions of wasted dollars in vain and misguided lawsuits.

As a Registered Nurse, I was keenly aware of risk to patients, and as an ER nurse, I was responsible to know the risks, and keep abreast of the science. My point is: apply critical thinking to these developments. Don't fall for the "big Pharma boogeyman".

I don't know what the final answer will be regarding autism, whether genetics, environment, or x-box.

But I know it ain't vaccines.

hiswiserangel said...

And again, I cite statistical evidence of countries who wait later to administer 50% or fewer vaccines to their kids, have lower mortality rates in children and way lower incidences of autism. What would it hurt to wait until after 2? What would it hurt to cut the vaccines from 26 to 13? The nations who take this more relaxed vaccine schedule have LOWER mortality rates. Their kids aren't keeling over from polio/smallpox/measles/bubonic plague. They are healthier than our kids. Look at the statistics I posted. Why must we bombard their immature immune systems from birth? To glorify science? To praise the infallibility of American medicine? We are sacrificing our kids unnecessarily.

hiswiserangel said...

And 40 years ago, autism was blamed on cold, emotionally detached moms. Hey, I've been attacked non-stop for 18 years. I've had to fight for autism recognition, diagnosis, funds for research, funds for treatment, funds for medicine, insurance coverage, education and therapy. I've have to fight .gov and medicine and Education. I've had to fight the uninformed public who will either inform me I need to beat my spoiled unruly kids when they're having a meltdown, or press me to turn them over to the government to be warehoused in group homes. I have fought with every ounce of energy, sometimes beyond mental, emotional and physical endurance. I've been left battered on the floor, defeated by TPTB who "know better" than I do. The only difference is in your smug self-assuredness, you go home to normal kids or no kids, and I go hug mine. So of course, I'm going to bow to you, you who know everything because a bunch of government entities told you there were no studies or statistics saying there could possible be a link to vaccines used on genetically susceptible babies.
Oh wait, no I won't because I can't. I don't have the luxury to stop fighting.

Unknown said...

Angel, We discovered that the disasterous cocktail of anti-biotics before birth, with the overwhelming amount of hard metals contained in Flu vaccines and MMR, which have been IRREFUTABLY linked as a trigger to autism and ADHD. I have special children who I fight for every day as well.

For all of you naysayers, I would ask you to look at the evidence... Why has everyone who releases a study linking evidence of vaccines or anti-biotics to Autism and ADHD lost their license to practice medicine? Why the big coverup and race to discredit? That alone should cause truth-seekers to race around asking questions. Instead, I have been called a negligent and unloving parent because I do not wish to expose my child to death in a tube.

DOES ANYONE READ THE REQUIRED PAMPHLETS FOR EVERY VACCINE? The pamphlet for every vaccine states that it can/will cause death, the side effects are the disease itself, and other side effects are permanent disability; WAIT, it also says that the vaccine is not guaranteed to work. BTW, you cannot hold anyone responsible because you sign a waiver before getting the vaccine.


Because the .gov tells you that it is the right choice?

harbqll said...

So, there's no actual evidence to support your position, but you believe it anyway, because the evidence "might" be out there, somewhere. My liberal little brother feels the same way about global warming.

Do you also believe in goblins, zombies, and functioning socialist economies?

I'm sorry, Angel, I really am, about your situation with your kids. I also know that people need to find tangible targets for their outrage when faced with problems. You need something to rage against. I get that.

But while I'm a libertarian, I'm also a physician - a pathologist, to be specific. And there is simply no evidence to support your claims. On the other hand, there *is* evidence to maintain the current vaccination schedules: look at infant/child disease rates in American communities which are largely lefty-hippy-types (Olympia, Washington springs to mind).

There is no law mandating you vaccinate your children - I admit this may not be true in every state, I haven't studied the laws of all 50 states - so no one is forcing anyone to do anything, which you're claiming otherwise.

People who choose not to vaccinate are choosing not to provide their children with innate immunity, and are relying on 'herd vitality'. Which is to say, they're counting on living in a (mostly) disease-free society because everyone else is immunizing their children. A very parasitical, leftist attitude, if you ask me.

hiswiserangel said...

Does the medical community know what causes Autism? How to cure it? Why not? Millions were spent to replicate over and over a "failed" protocol in order to discredit that line of thinking. Not one "scientist" thought, "Let's take this possibility and study it from other angles, go down other pathways." But that wasn't the focus. It wasn't about finding the truth, it was about discrediting a theory.

I truly appreciate your condescension, Dr. hrbqll, it makes me feel so much better that you truly understand what the autistic community feels and faces on a daily basis. Comforts us to know y'all are "sorry" for our situation and that you understand our frustration. Helps on the nights when sleep doesn't come. But hey, everybody knows a lifetime of Autism is better than measles. Nobody dies, it's just a life sentence of pain and frustration. Easy peasy.

As far as the aggressive vaccination schedule, go look at the stats. 29 countries with half the vaccines, lower mortality rates for children under 5, lower incidence of autism. And tell me why ours is so much better. We're #35 in mortality and so far off the charts in autism it's scary. At least we lead the world in something.

Anonymous said...

I don't know enough about this to make a guess, But I pray for y'all every time I hear "Autism". You make me run in the other room and hug the Munchkin and whisper "thank you" over and over. (Munchkin thinks I'm "kinda weird sometimes")---Ray

hiswiserangel said...

Ray, through all the pain, fears and frustrations, the girls get hugs and prayers several times a day. Early on, they were very resistant to touch, but I fought for my hugs. Now they tolerate them, and I'm not sure if it's because of the autism or because they're teens.

Chief Nose Wetter said...

Looks like a real firestorm in here. Have the Nazi drug companies come up with a cure for any diseases in the last 50 years except for maybe polio? They don't give a fuck about you or your children. Just get them drug dependent people to make them money. Fuck allopathic medicine. Homeopathic medicine is the only way. Fuck Big Pharma. Much love Angel!

Chief Nose Wetter said...

On a additional note: why are we vaccinating children for diseases that have been wiped out anyway? There is no "cure" for autism. Autistic children have experienced brain damage due to chemical exposure. Accumulated thing may not be bad but when combined with other things it is. Live free, live pure, and fuck the AMA.

Chief Nose Wetter said...

Check out Dr. Russell Blaylock on Youtube honey... xxoo

indyjonesouthere said...

It may be worth your while to follow the occasional piece on Vox Days blog when he covers the vaccine argument. He meets the same resistance from the vaccinators as you have but I think he has damn good advice on vaccinating children. Follow your gut is right.

Anonymous said...

This is where the hysteria began.

And Hysteria it is.

No links, and not even a decent definition of "autism".

It truly exists, but is often a catch all for other issues.

But don't let facts get in the way of your unwavering belief that "Big Pharma" is trying to make all little kiddies autistic with their deadly vaccines so they can all get rich.

Believe in the conspiracy. Give it life.

hiswiserangel said...

Yeah thanks for that anonymous, I'll go tell my two not autistic daughters to knock it off, there's no such thing because it's not clearly defined in your opinion.

I'm not saying dump all vaccines, I'm saying let's not buy into the hysteria that if we don't give our babies a dozen shots before their first birthdays, the Western world will collapse and we'll all die. Let's back off, look at what the rest of the world is doing that is so much more successful than what we're doing, and maybe just maybe, put some effort into finding a cause and cure and less into disproving ONE theory and trying to shame a bunch of suffering families into silence.

Your compassion is underwhelming.

hiswiserangel said...

But don't let facts get in the way of your unwavering belief that "Big Pharma" is trying to make all little kiddies autistic with their deadly vaccines so they can all get rich.

We acknowledge that not ALL kids who get vaccinated become autistic, what we'd like is the courtesy of some brilliant scientific mind to consider than some kids are genetically susceptible, that vaccines can trigger an autoimmune reaction, and not treat us like we're idiots. Not everyone who smokes, gets cancer, some are more genetically susceptible. The difference is adults have the choice, kids do not.

Unknown said...


I see you drink the CNN Kool-Aid. Just be aware that it can be deadly.

Journalists are leaving the network and exposing the lies and coverups CNN has been a part of since before Obama was placed in the seat of the President.

I do not post links because if you don't want to believe me, no amount of proof will convince you.

Angel, I too will tell my Autistic kid that he is faking it, so he should just knock it off. After all "they are just a drain on society". Thankfully, someone intervened on behalf of the poor soul that told me that...

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty convinced that the vaccine 'cocktails' given at age 2 have a great deal to do with our son's autism.

Before that, his progress was pretty much standard 'kidlet', but it was Grandma who noticed the difference in his demeanor between our weekly visits. "He doesn't seem as verbal" and "H isn't his normal self" were the comments - my wife and I thought it was just a phase - it wasn't. He will be turning 15 very soon and is doing okay, but his learning progress is slowed. He is a 10th grader but his work is 6th grade - thats okay, that can be made up later, but communication skills and learning to handle situations off the cuff - that will be the challenge.

Thank you and others for autism topics - they matter very much.

idahobob said...

Why is it, that every time the truth about vaccines gets mentioned, a whole gob of "experts", actually they are fucking trolls that have nothing better than to try and stir up arguments, come out of the woodwork , and spew nonsense.

Fuck you so called experts, you are nothing but a bunch of mind controlled robots, that believe everything that the lame stream media tells you.

Vaccines ARE bad! there is so much junk put into them, any right minded parent should say NO to them.

And no, I do not believe in goblins, zombies or functioning socialist economies.

Damn, I just hate mindless trolls!


Chief Nose Wetter said...

Sorry Angel. I didn't mean to go off in here. My sister walked in front of a freight train while on xanax and zoloft. I watched psychotropic drugs destroy her mind and eventually kill her. I feel most drugs and vaccines create more illness and suffering than they cure. Again, sorry for the whisky laced commentary.

hiswiserangel said...

Chief, it's okay darlin'. I like to think of this place as y'all's corner pub, come here to blow off steam, discuss shit, laugh, yell, fight, make up, have another round.
I'm so sorry about your sister. *hugs*

Jesse in DC said...

Wowsa. This is the third time I have tried to write this comment. If I said it the way I am thinking it, I would sure as hell get a spanking. First, to all the experts out there, FUCK YOU!!You have no more idea what causes autism than I do. You can all have your pet theories about what does and does not, but it does not make a one of them accurate. Coming here and flinging poo at Angel because she does not subscribe to your pet belief is pretty low brow. I have some friends that have autistic kids, and know how hard it is to just have one. Angel has two. She will need to worry about and care for those kids the rest of her life. I have almost no idea how hard that is,but I can imagine. Every encounter with a stranger is potentially problematic. Just think about a typical LEO encounter nowadays. WTF folks, why not be supportive? I will bet she encounters plenty of assholes on a daily basis, so why show up here and be one? Compassion costs you nothing, being a dick costs at least your respect.

JeremyR said...

There is also a possible connection between induced labor and autism. There may very well be a dozen or more factors tha come into play, and at this point we can not eliminate any of them. Inductions are on the rise, autism is on the rise, vaccines are increasing.
It is a precious human being we are messing with, and unlike playdoh, we can't smoosh it and start over.

Anonymous said...

i really do not know what to say
jesse in dc said a lot with few words
the self appointed experts are like the person who wrote this letter here

when and if the cause-s of autism are found the so called experts should keep their mouths shut and their keyboards unplugged