Tuesday, August 20, 2013

Why wasn't I invited?

There has been a sexual revolution apparently, and I have missed it. Growing up Captist (half Catholic, half Baptist), there was only ONE rule for sex: No. Until you're married, and then for the love of God and all that's Holy, don't enjoy it. Slut. Fast forward 33 years.

According to many female authors, having and thoroughly enjoying sex, even having sex with different men throughout your sexual life-time, does not constitute being a "slut". Having a rich and varied sex life does not brand a big red W on your chest. However, according to a lot of Facebook memes, yes it does. There's even something called "slut shaming" that is a big deal and practically (in some circles) tantamount to a "hate crime". So color me confused.

"Yea! More women to have sex with!
But you'd better not have sex with anybody but me,
or you're a whore!"

My experiences have marched lock step with this Saint/slut philosophy. There are women you bang who thoroughly love sex, and women you love who are above such sleaziness. I haven't had much to discredit this. One fiance, one husband, no enjoyment. My experiences, granted, are limited at best. My control group is two. I have questions, lots and lots of questions. I have girlfriends who are trying to help me locate my inner Sex Goddess who went AWOL sometime in the mid-80s, who are deeply into the liberated sexual woman camp. They are fully supportive of women having and enjoying sex every bit as much as men. But do men think this way, too? How do men really feel about "sexually liberated" women? I have no men friends to ask, except for y'all; so bear with me, this is going to be interesting.

Some ground rules, this isn't a request for pictures of your junk. This isn't about trashing women, or putting them on a pedestal, or asking for prurient sexual talk. This is a request for insight, information, a look at the opposing team's playbook. How do you guys see this issue?

How much sex, how many different partners, can a woman enjoy before sliding into the slut column?

Are there certain sex acts that are too slutty for good girls? Are there such creatures as good girls and bad girls?

Is it a turnoff to men to have a completely inexperienced lover? Someone who needs teaching and guidance? Or do you want your lovers prepped, primed and ready to go?  Think middle-aged woman with the skillset of a noob.

Okay those are my biggest questions. For now. If you don't want your comment posted, put DO NOT POST at the beginning, or email me. If you feel more comfortable commenting anonymously, that's fine too. And ladies, I'd love to here from y'all. Commence the discussion.


Anonymous said...

Poor thing!! I survived the "Liberated" 70's and the first few years of the slutty 80's without catching anything(mostly by luck cause I had A LOT of unprotected sex) I pretty much got it out of my system by the time I married in '86 and never have sex with anyone but my wife. But I never call anyone a slut or whore. Mostly cause I'm the first to qualify for the title of "biggest manwhore ever"----Ray

Xenolith said...

Go to bar, have some sleaze buy you a drink, go home with him and have sex. Slut.
Date a guy, (I say minimum 3 dates, but that's me) spend some quality time, and if it feels right, go for it. Girlfriend...
Stay with a guy long enough to know its gonna last. Maybe not forever, but at least you know yer compatible, sexually or otherwise, "cleave unto one another" or something like that. WIFE
And I'd say the rules reply in either case.
If its a casual relationship, wait.
If its a friendship with a chance of something more, test the waters.
If you have made a commitment: marriage or just a promise to be faithful. 'Nuff said.

(Flirting is appropriate in any of the above scenarios. Just keep in mind its FLIRTING, not FUCKING)

And personal preference, just for the record, I would rather be with a hesitant, careful, and willing to experiment female than a 'jump in the sack, and by the way, what's yer name?' type.

And I maintain that the first time should be with someone you love. It makes it easier to 'lose your virginity' I think. Just my opinion and not necessarily that of the management.

Anonymous said...

For me, it's not about some magic threshold (say, 7 partners) that makes a woman a "slut". It is her demeanor and personal integrety, or lack thereof, that is important.
Behave like a slut and you will be viewed as one.
A good woman is a good woman, regardless of the number of prior partners.

"Are there certain sex acts that are too slutty for good girls?"
NO! It's not the sexual act as such that is "slutty", it's the woman! In fact, I like it when a good woman knows what she wants and gets it, even if it is a bit kinky.

I preferred inexperienced women when I was young and insecure. Now I don't care, as long as it's a good woman.

R from the other side of the Atlantic.

Phil said...

Just a couple of thoughts.
For one thing, you ain't gonna wear it out.
For another, sexual liberation is a state of mind more than anything else.

Lighten up and encourage your partner to explore the fun aspect instead of just the physical act.
As with any other skill, it takes practice, practice, practice.
So get busy.

hiswiserangel said...

Busted, my partner has been practicing with someone else for the last six years. After telling me for 14 years that wives and mommies don't do certain things, he went looking for someone who did.

I'm just trying to figure out where I stand once I get freedom.

Unknown said...

That just kind of dropped a bomb on any smartass thing I was gonna say. I'll do some re-thinking.

hiswiserangel said...

It's okay, Kyle, sometimes funny lightens the mood, just give me some honest insight to go with it. :-)

Unknown said...

have sex sex is fun enjoy life fuck what anybody thinks the down side with so many deseases these day make me glad im married

hiswiserangel said...

fitty, I am a Libertarian where other people are concerned, I'm also a woman with 46 years of repressive brainwashing to overcome.

But I appreciated your message. Thank you. :-)

Volfram said...

For religious reasons, I was looking for a girl who had not had sex with anyone else. It's only reasonable, I haven't had sex with anybody.(I know a lot of the liberated types out there are going to flame me for this. You know what? I'm not forcing my morals on you, if you want to tell me "No you totally need to practice or you can't please your future wife," then do us all a favor and go masturbate with a Dremil instead.)

"Was" because I gave up on finding one and just quit looking. I will happily play games where the odds are skewed against me if I think I can win. I don't play games where the rules are written so that I can never win.

My parents taught me that you should not have sex with anybody you aren't married to, but once you're married? Go wild. God designed sex to be enjoyable. Face it, he wasn't going to convince us to do it otherwise, and he was kind of not joking about the whole "Be fruitful and multiply" thing. Anybody who tells you otherwise wasn't paying attention, because the Bible mentions people having sex A LOT. Not just in Song of Solomon.

I've caught some of the comments my mom makes. Apparently I come by my personal tastes and fetishes(and straight-up raw libido) honestly. I know she's into some pretty interesting stuff, even if I'm very happy not knowing what ANY of it is.

Anonymous said...

Fellow lady, here.

I must admit, I haven't thought of any woman as a slut for years. For me, as long as your having consensual sex, and because you enjoy it (or at least know WHY you didn't enjoy it), there ain't a problem. Numbers are pretty meaningless to me.

Oh, darlin' --- I just scrolled back up and read the rest of the comments...Been there, done that. Of course, I know you only blogularly, and not well at that, but damn. You don't deserve that. I'm sorry.

I barely survived marriage #1 with an asshat who thought like that... turns out, I'm not frigid. He was a lousy lover and all-round shitty person. Marriage #2 I went into as an adult, with an adult, and it's been much better.

Things will get better. Love yourself, be patient with yourself, and always ALWAYS listen to yourself. My biggest problem has always been trusting my gut. Much love to you, cause this shit is difficult.


giamby said...

I believe most of the problem is mental. That was my story, being raised in a strict Catholic home.

When I finally did get a girlfriend, it took probably dozens of blowjobs before I could actually cum in her mouth. It was some sort of mental blockage that precluded me from doing so.

The lesson here is don't think about what's happening. Just relax, enjoy the sensation, and let go.

hiswiserangel said...

Volfram, if anyone tries to flame you, they'll have to go through me first.

Sneeze, (love that handle), thank you. Part of me is anxious to find out I'm not the sexually incompetent doofus I've been made to feel like, and part of me is terrified of the process.

Anonymous said...

I agree with every bit of these statements from anonymous.

"For me, it's not about some magic threshold (say, 7 partners) that makes a woman a "slut". It is her demeanor and personal integrety, or lack thereof, that is important.
Behave like a slut and you will be viewed as one.
A good woman is a good woman, regardless of the number of prior partners.

"Are there certain sex acts that are too slutty for good girls?"
NO! It's not the sexual act as such that is "slutty", it's the woman! In fact, I like it when a good woman knows what she wants and gets it, even if it is a bit kinky."

Being flirtatious is good. Being slutty is bad. Being a tease will get you slapped.

From your post.

"There are women you bang who thoroughly love sex, and women you love who are above such sleaziness. I haven't had much to discredit this."

Neither have I and I am a male. For scientific reasons only I will admit to several dozen partners and so can honestly say that I always liked girls that liked sex. But married the opposite(Baptist turned Catholic! WTF?) and I miss passion and fun so much!

The best advice I would give for happiness FWIW, but you asked, is to use your feminine charms to keep the illusion of the chase going. Women underestimate how much a man likes to strung along just a bit be and bitten by the chase. Be alluring. Not loose. And then let your man catch you.

hiswiserangel said...

Oh dear, "The Internal Dialogue".

"Am I doing this right? Is he enjoying this? Can I try this or ask for this or will he think I'm a whore? Why can't I get comfortable? Focus, oh shit, I need to fart. If I don't come, should I fake it? Oh, well, it's over."

hiswiserangel said...

Anonymous, please please for the love of God and your wife please talk to her. If she's like me and hundreds of other repressed women, her natural sensuality is warring with the "good girls don't" bullshit she was subjected to. We need, crave, long for the wild passionate, fun, crazy, hot, sheet grabbing sex that every woman deserves. We're too embarrassed, ashamed, afraid, to ask. We feel it's wrong to say, "Hey! This is my clit, it's a wonderful thing!" We fantasize about tearing your clothes off and riding you like a trained monkey on a circus pony, but when it comes down to it, we're afraid of that "S" word. We're wives and mommies, but dammit, we were women first. Give her a really hot book, a silk tie and your support. It may take a while, and yeah, she'll be embarrassed at first, but you may release her from that prison. I wish my hubby had given me that.

hiswiserangel said...

Thank you, Kyle. I truly appreciate the insight. :-)

Unknown said...

Just don't tell anybody I let you read a page from The Man Book. :)

Anonymous said...

hiswiseangel. Thank you for the sincere post, and I don't want to make this about me but my wife and I have deeper issues and if anything the lack of connection is symptomatic. We have sought the help of a couple counselors and have come to an uneasy truce. There are lot's of reasons to be married. My wife would like to have what you describe but there is a lack of connection that extends into the bedroom. She is well aware and things have been much discussed. If anything a quick go would help things sometime, but that is the part my wife is temperamentally incapable of. Spontaneous good sex has to be carefully planned and everything be just right. I don't mean it as a criticism, we all have our shit, as Maslow said. I don't miss that my wife isn't a slut, for God's sake I am proud that she is classy, but sometimes I wish she could just have a go because we are both human and could make each other feel better right now.

hiswiserangel said...

Actually, the spontaneity and "go" is something I'm working on in individual therapy. I'm a chronic overthinker/planner. Spontaneous for me means only 4 pages of planning instead of 8. Good luck to you both. I understand "other reasons", it's why I'm still married.

catfish said...

If this is too long to publish you don't need to.
I'm a product of the '70's and I grew up across from 4 girls dorms. So a slut to me is a chica that says NO! LMAO I maybe the male version of a slut. lol
My favorite pastime I is still picking up drunken college girls!
But seriously to answer your questions.
How much sex, how many different partners, can a woman enjoy before sliding into the slut column?
Good question. I don't think there is a set number. It all depends on the women. Her attitude, how she dresses, how she carries herself, etc. Her age. I knew this high school girl 1 time that had to have sex every weekend. So down to the roller rink she would go. She always chose a different partner. To her it was just sex. She was smart enough to not want the the entanglement of a relationship. She didn't like kissing or any of that touchy feely stuff. She just wanted laid. She was almost masculine in her sex act. There was only 1 guy she had sex with regularly. But I never considered her a slut for all her different partners.
Are there certain sex acts that are too slutty for good girls? OH HELL NO! LMAO Girls must do what Master says! Or else! LMAO
Are there such creatures as good girls and bad girls?
Oh HELL YES! Bad girls like to cause trouble between men and women. They like see 2 guys fight over them. Bad girls throw knives at you and shoot at you! Well maybe I deserved that happening to me! The worst was a full 2 quart pitcher beer. I almost cried to see all that beer go to waste! LMAO

Is it a turnoff to men to have a completely inexperienced lover? Someone who needs teaching and guidance?
For me? Not at all. I enjoy instructing sweet young things. Too many years ago out in WC state I used to play around in the BDSM Universe. Lots of instruction going on there. I play with college girls every chance I get and I have discovered they usually want to try something they consider “kinky”. They were just waiting for a guy they felt safe with. Guess who? Hi there! LMAO So they end up learning about safe words and different size ball gags for beginners or whatever it is they want to learn. Hey it's all about them. It's for their pleasure, right? I'm not getting anything out of this at all! lol
Or do you want your lovers prepped, primed and ready to go?
Hey that's good too! Can't teach them all the time! lol Women that know what they are doing is a huge turn on too. When I was younger older women were great at teaching me all sorts of things! Come to think of women are a huge turn on! Must be the French side of my Hillbilly blood line! LMAO

RabidAlien said...

Dunno about any of the other guys, but I just want someone who enjoys sex and is willing to admit to that! I've had two partners, myself (married to both....not at the same time...), and never really felt like I was a part of anything with either one. My first wife I just felt like I was a means to an end, and with my current wife, well...she's got endomitriosis pretty bad so her sex-drive pretty much disappeared after the honeymoon. She's got the "oh, _____'s evil!" syndrome pretty bad. So I have a pretty good idea how you feel, HWA. I'm evil, cuz I have a sex drive. Blah.

Anonymous said...

Angel, first let me say that this is my very first comment, although I've been reading your blog for several months. I thoroughly enjoy your honesty, sense of humor and great eye for the absurd. As to your questions, I speak as a guy of 56 years, who has had his share of experience along the way. I don't think there is any magic slut number for women. It's more about context. If she had six one night stands with a string of strange guys, I'm thinking she has slutty tendencies. If she had six lovers as a result of having a true relationship with the guys...not a slut at all. As for acts...there are none that I think are slutty, per se. Nor do I think there are "good" or "bad" girls, in terms of what sex acts they want and like. Personally I would never use that criteria. Regarding experience, or lack thereof...I have had personal experience at each end of the spectrum and in between. One of the sexiest things a woman ever said to me in bed, and she was precisely what you said, a middle- aged woman with the skillset of a noob, was "please teach me." We ended up having a very nice long term relationship and she was a fabulous lover. Experience isn't all that important. Sex skills aren't exactly rocket science to learn. More important than experience is an open mind, relaxed attitude and being a good RECEIVER of pleasure. That last point is the biggie. It means dropping all your defenses and providing feedback. I don't think any guy will disagree. Positive reinforcement and letting us know what you like will never be a turn off and no guy worth sharing yourself with will ever think you are a slut for doing so. Regards, Gary

It wasn't Me said...

Play nice. None of you are too old for a spanking.
I am 43 and 11 years into the second marriage. The first was bad because she was young and I was stupid. It lasted eight years and I almost didn't survive. In the two years from the end of the marriage I found out a lot about myself and a little about women. Here goes:
1. I can be an idiot about any thing.
2. 18 year old's are fun for about 30 minutes when your 30.
3. Most 30 something American females (A woman is a grown adult with a brain) are out for revenge on their last husband/live in boyfriend.
4. Women over forty are the bomb!
I copied your little warning from the top of the comment bar cause you might be a little naughty yourself. I love women and I do not judge them based on their past. Don't tell me any details and we can get along fine. Find a GROWN MAN who shares a few interests and see how it goes from there. Love Yourself and Life. Do what you want and try new things. You will discover beautiful new things about yourself.

Mr. Miracle said...

HWA, I can (and should) only speak for myself, but I believe, for me, the Heinlein quote says it best-"Darling, a true lady takes off her dignity with her clothes and does her whorish best. At other times you can be as modest and dignified as your persona requires." A Man, a real Man not a man, will neither ask nor care about your experiences before him. He will be too concerned with making memories with you. As long as you are clean and willing, a Man will be also. If you have a great range of experience, great, you can keep trying all the stuff you both know until you solve the physical puzzle and "click", then try it all again. If one or both are not quite as experienced, then you can work up to various advanced techniques, making notations along the way. Or any other combination. As for the "slut" designation, I find that it depends on outlook and technique. if a woman picks up a new man every Friday and Saturday with the intention of only having anonymous sex, then I have to label her a slut. But a woman that knows her limitations along with her desires, and seeks to explore both, well I would label her a find and a keeper. But, don't be concerned with labels. As long as "Mrs. Grundy" doesn't tell your business at a church social, you should enjoy yourself. Discretion, and safety, above all. Also, be honest about what trips your trigger. Men, or at least me, I don't like to guess. I generally pay attention and try my best, but if something needs more pressure, less, or shift to the left, let me know. If something looks or sounds interesting, let me know, so we can make preparations to explore. If that particular thing doesn't work for you, be honest. We will get a snack and try again, or go back to something that does work for the rest of the night, and try something else another time. Whew, I think I am done.

hiswiserangel said...

Something this little exercise has done with amazing clarity, is reassure me that my experiences with assholes aren't the norm; and all y'all are Men, good and true.
Thank you so much for so many wonderful comments and insights.
:-) There is hope, and I'm not too old to find something good.

Odysseus said...

I often tell people not to compare themselves to HH and myself because we are weird(just how weird is a topic for another day), the same means that although we have what we both believe to be a wonderful marriage I have difficulty giving relationship advice to most people.

One thing that is constant is that the joys of sex are to be enjoyed. For a committed couple the more enjoyed the sex the more emotional bonding hormones we produce, and the stronger the bond becomes. The danger of early promiscuity is that the bonding mechanisms can become damaged but being continually deceived. I've read nothing indicating that this is as bad in a developed(post 20's) brain.

Remember that you at least have online friends who cherish you for who you are and will be willing to be your sounding board.

Anonymous said...

this conversation is moderated by the same girl who started out with" I'm a christian conservative" and got all mad over at my blog a year ago. you've come a long way Red. feels good don't it.

Wraith said...

Darlin', you will, unfortunately, find a lot of assholes out there. You're getting a skewed result because the men who read TLL are capable of thought processes above that of a single-celled organism. Your average American(of either gender), not so much.

You've gotten a ton of great advice, though, and I say this as someone who's been around the block a lot more than I should have. The first and foremost thing you have to do is inject yourself with a large dose of DILLIGAF.

"What will people say? What will people think of me?" The proper answer is not, "who cares?" The proper answer is to not even consider the question. (Wow. I got all Kung Fu Zen Master there for a second.) If everyone involved is fully and willfully consenting, it's really no one else's business. You have this attitude concerning others, now it's time to apply it to your own life.

There is only one qualified to judge you and your life, and His perspective is infinitely greater than ours. You may--okay, you WILL--make mistakes, and do things that were, in hindsight, not great ideas. BTDT. But we are not perfect. We're here to learn sometimes-hard lessons and to grow in an infinite variety of ways. But you'll never learn and grow if you don't take chances.

Treat yourself and your body, and your partners and their bodies, with respect. If you're more than just pieces of meat to each other, that's a pretty good guideline that you're on the right track.

(Sorry if this rambles--I left for work at 0700 and got back at 2300 and my brain currently resembles a charcoal briquette.)

Mark12A said...

Just remember that your principal erogenous zone is between your ears. Don't sweat the small shit.

hiswiserangel said...

E. Thank you for the personal note and the video site. :-)

JeremyR said...

My experience is limited, but here is what I know. My first wife was prudish. She did not like sex even though we had sex prior to our marriage. She later told our kids she had been raped. We could go months with out sex, and she did not care. When we were in marriage therapy, we went one month where she set the schedule for sex, we had none. Zero, nada. The following month I was supposed to set the schedule, guess what, she quit the therapy. I was never unfaithful, did look at porn though. She divorced me over that. At least, that was her stated reason. She then stalked me through most of my second marriage.
Wife two had a pretty good sex drive at first, but she had some real health issues, hysterectomy and no horomone therapy, so sex was painful if it lasted very long, and I have never had a quickie in my life. Our sex life degenerated to the point where she told me to go find a girl friend.
The present wife has a strong sex drive and likes to experiment.
Just remember, a slut is a whore with a poor business plan aka a nonprofit hooker.
Classy women can be absolutely unrestrained in bed. its all in what they, and their mate want.
I'm in to oral. My first wife was in to oral until she found out it didn't mean just talking. (and not necessarily about sex.)
Remember, what ever you do, its about enjoyment, bonding with your partner, and procreation. (why do we call it that? Parenting is the last bastion of the amateur. Not sayng you must have more kids, thats between you, your spouse, and GOD. My wife and I are planning on none. GOD may choose otherwise.) So be comfortable in your skin, do what feels best, and be spontanious. bad sex isn't as bad as no sex.

Heroditus Huxley said...

Angel, it's your choice about whether or not you post this, but...before you go anywhere near another relationship, learn yourself. Learn what makes you tick. Find out what you and your body like: buy any toys needed to do that, and don't go cheap.

And last but not least...find a real man, one with whom you share some interests and goals, then be friends first.

Much love from Odysseus and me both. Chin up, and kick the SOB into orbit. Oathbreaking (including adultery) is unforgivable.

DaddyBear said...

As to how many men the women I spend time with have had sex with: None of my business, so long as when they're with me, they're with only me, be it for a weekend or for a decade. Also so long as no diseases come along for the ride.

As for my preferences for how much they know about dancing horizontally, both extremes and everything in between can be fun. So long as the lady truly wants to be there and enjoys what we do, she can be a double black belt or she can be an almost complete beginner.

What Heroditus said. After my divorce, I put myself on a two-year no sex, no girlfriend hiatus just so that I could figure out what I wanted and what I didn't want. Don't rush into anything because someone else wants you to be a 'sexual goddess'. Do it when you want to, because you want to.

No matter what you decide, be safe. There are a lot of creeps out there, and even the nice guys probably aren't virgins. Diseases are something you probably don't have to worry about when you're in a marriage, but now you do.

Good luck, and remember, you're the best thing that's ever happened to whoever you decide to be with.